I don't want to give anything away about the plot of SherryBaby as I know many people have yet to see it and I would encourage them to do so. But, Maggie Gyllenhaal dominates this film, appearing in every scene, and ensuring that we experience the tragedy of Sherry Swanson's circumstances through the eyes and mind of this troubled woman who can't - and is arguably unwilling to - regain control of her life and destiny. When we discover the reason for the path she's taken, it's shocking. This is possibly because the drama is presented to us intimately - it's shot almost like a documentary, at close quarters and with no apologies for harsh light - everything is exposed, however ugly, and we have to watch it all.
I have a 'problem' with some of Maggie's films, in that I find them uncomfortable to watch. This is a combination of the types of film Maggie chooses and also her perfomances. Without doubt, SherryBaby leaves one with the deeply held conviction that Maggie is a fine and brave actress, but I failed to warm to SherryBaby as a woman and I was not sure whether that was intentional or not. Without any of the humour and absurdity of Secretary, I did find myself wishing that the next time Maggie opts for a low-budget independent movie she's able to keep her clothes on throughout.
My overall impression of SherryBaby was that, because I couldn't empathise with Sherry, I was left rather depressed by this bleak picture of a damaged woman's life from which there didn't seem much chance of, or inclination for, escape. I was impressed by Maggie's performance and relieved that the next time I will see her will be as Rachel Dawes in The Dark Knight.
I was uncomfortable with the extent of Maggie's skin exposed in SherryBaby and so that made me think about how Maggie's family would feel about this! When Jake was asked about Maggie's sex scenes in Secretary, he replied that he encouraged her. "It's great I'm sort of saying, 'Yeah, it's right. Show them what it's all about!... But as a brother, I still hide my eyes and I still say, 'Oh, my God!' And I know she does too when there are love scenes that I'm in... Then again your parents did something to have you, so even though you don't want to think about it, it does happen, you know?"
In 2004, as part of the promotion for The Day After Tomorrow, Jake was asked about his rivalry with Maggie: 'We were always competitive when we were little. Up until very recently, we've been really competitive. And then there came a time, where we just said to each other, 'This is useless. I'm never gonna get the roles that you're gonna get,' for the reasons I hope people know, because she's my SISTER. (Laughs) In this business competition between siblings is ridiculous. You need each other. When she just recently went through her whole press fiasco for Secretary, she needed me...and I was there for her. I need her now because she has experience that I haven't had, and she's been through the whirlwind of press. I can talk to her about it, and competition just doesn't work – it just didn't work after a while.'
'My sister was in a movie called Secretary. She was nominated for a Golden Globe. And there was a lot of talk about her being nominated for an Academy Award for it. It was just a really big breakthrough performance. It was an independent film that was very small. Her performance was just recognized, out of all of those independent films that come out every year, as just extraordinary ... It was just an overwhelming thing for her. A great thing, but also overwhelming.'
Meanwhile, Back in Gotham...
The paparazzi are taking over Chicago, all desperate to get pictures of Batman, the Joker, Rachel Dawes and a load of gadgets. But if you were a passer by and you happened across the filming, you would me told that this was all for the movie 'Rory's First Kiss' (Rory become the name of director Christopher Nolan's son). According to the Chicago Tribune, this pretence persists despite the massive interest in the film and its shoot which has completely taken over sections of Chicago, employed vast numbers of locals, and fed a fortune ($50 million) into the city's economy.
Apparently, the main reason for this unprecedented 'secrecy' is to keep the plot under wraps. Silly me, when I think of Batman movies, plot isn't uppermost in my mind.
Includes pictures from IHJ.
55 comments:
I saw SherryBaby a while ago. I agree it's a movie that makes you uncomfortable.I kind of knew what I was getting into, but it was a very raw, gritty look at a level of existence not often (if ever) portrayed in movies. I think she did an extraordinary job. Honest, authentic and brave. At the end, IMO, I thought Sherry had grown enough to understand some things about herself, and even though she was floundering, the jury was out on whether she'd utimately succeed or fail.I think she wanted to do better, but was like a child with ADD, she was impatient, looking for shortcuts, or for people who could "rescue" her. Sex was a way to communicate. It was also "Coin of the realm" in her world...from her childhood forward. It's not a movie I'll ever want to see again, but I am very glad I saw it. I think Maggie has to be one of the most interesting and most underrated actors around!She never fails to hold my full attention.
LOL about Batman's plot!
I understand your feelings perfectly about Maggie's films in general and Sherrybaby in particular. It's very difficult to watch, but Maggie's performance blew me away. Sherry is certainly not someone I would warm up to, but she is out there with all her warts prominently, honestly displayed for all to see. I do feel she truly wants to get her life together so she can get her child back, although she has an unrealistic idea of what it takes to be a mother. And at first it's all about Sherry, not her daughter.
Sherry does learn and grow, though, as seen particularly in that last scene with her brother. She will always have a difficult life and will never be "undamaged," but I felt a certain amount of hope for her.
Secretary put Maggie on the map; Sherrbaby solidified the spot. That makes me very happy, indeed.
"but I failed to warm to SherryBaby as a woman and I was not sure whether that was intentional or not. Without any of the humour and absurdity of Secretary, I did find myself wishing that the next time Maggie opts for a low-budget independent movie she's able to keep her clothes on throughout."
I love your posts WDW because you do not flinch from saying just what you feel.
Oddly enough I felt a lot of empathy with Sherry while also feeling there were routes open to her which she was not willing to take. As Bobbyanna says "she was impatient, looking for shortcuts" and that part of her made me impatient with her. The story provokes you to ask a number of uncomfortable questions - I guess that was the point. Had it been a less harsh portrayal, had anything been glossed over or soft pedalled, the viewer may not have been jolted by these questions.
WDW I agree that we need to see Maggie in a role that's challenging and different but doesn't entail so much harsh "exposure" -- skinwise and otherwise.
I find it quite interesting that everyone it seems (myself included) would rather Maggie keep her clothes on, while so many want Jake to do the exact opposite! Hmmmm -- what's that about?
Just an observation, nothing more. Honest!
"Hmmmm -- what's that about?"
Well don't hit me guys but I'm very happy to have Jake with his clothes on!
Beckela I'm sure you will be glad to read this.
I haven't seen Sherrybaby yet, but maybe the film is trying to push us toward the empathy we don't feel, or want to feel, with people like Sherry. I know that for me, I don't want to enter that harsh world unless I have to. My oldest's son's autism and the learning/life impairments of many of my students have forced me to, however; and it's through them I've learned to develop some of the empathy and understanding they need to grow. Whether they grow or not is still up to them; but somehow we need to develop a better social climate for their decisions to be fostered in.
It seems like Maggie has dedicated at least a part of her career to fostering that social climate, just as Jake seems to have with different roles. Stephen's guideline to "disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed" seems to be at work in both their careers. All too often, I'm amongst the comfortable, and I need to be shaken up so I can impact my world in a better way.
After I've been shaken up, I need to be comforted! Fortunately "sweaty Jake" and "sultry Maggie" seem to be there to help with that job, too!
Ah, Incognita! Somehow I knew that -- sometimes we truly are of the same mind.
It seems like Maggie has dedicated at least a part of her career to fostering that social climate, just as Jake seems to have with different roles. Stephen's guideline to "disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed" seems to be at work in both their careers. All too often, I'm amongst the comfortable, and I need to be shaken up so I can impact my world in a better way.
Me, too. Even if that discomfort makes us simply see certain people and the world differently, it's a positive impact -- as I'm certain is the case for many with Brokeback Mountain.
Interesting observations about SherryBaby. WDW, I appreciate your honesty in what the film made you feel. I tend to agree with just about everything you said. I saw the movie and I can honestly say that I most likely would never look at it again because it is certainly not a feel good movie. I think that Sherry made progress by the end but it did not leave me with the hope that things would all work out for her. But then again, real life does not always work out the way we wish.
I do bow to Maggie's brave choices in roles and willingness to expose all parts of herself emotionally and physically. But there are parts out there somewhere where she could show what she's got without "showing all that she's got." What she did in World Trade Center is an example. I don't think we need to see EVERYTHING of the life Sherry leads to get the picture. It did make me a bit uncomfortable and I am not a prude. Now that she is choosing a few more mainstream roles to throw into the mix, that will help with the perception that she's not just out there to shock. Some people do feel that from her.
She is brave as is Jake. And even though I wouldn't mind seeing a little more of his skin, I never want it to be for shock value. Too much takes away from the intent sometimes. Like in BBM, I think most people were surprised, shocked whatever by that first tent scene because it was something we had never seen before but most of us understood the reason for it. If some other less sensitive director than Ang Lee had been at the helm, they may have opted for less clothes. I think that would have been too distracting and not in a good way. The meaning of that scene and the beautiful one following would have been compromised. So sometimes, less is better and I hope Maggie gets some more good offers that let's the audience focus on her talent and not on how much of her body we will get to see.
But there are parts out there somewhere where she could show what she's got without "showing all that she's got." What she did in World Trade Center is an example. I don't think we need to see EVERYTHING of the life Sherry leads to get the picture.
I think you expressed that very aptly Dani. In Sherrybaby the shock value did jolt me hard enough to want to look deeper into the why and wherefore and the factors that detracted from Sherry's chances to change and grow. But a tad less of exposure would have made for a more watchable movie thereby reaching a bigger audience with the message.
The meaning of that scene and the beautiful one following would have been compromised. These words about how the scenes were handled by Ang in BBM are so true.
"Sometimes, less is better"
Is this maybe because "less" allows us to use "more" of our imagination? And maybe become "more" a part of the story than we otherwise would, or could?
What Dani said about the first tent scene and the fine balance Ang Lee played between "hidden" and "exposed" reminded me of the exchange between Beckela and Incognita about Jake clothes on/clothes off. There's a place somewhere between "hidden" and "exposed" that's right for all of us, yet different for all of us.
Maybe that's what makes a film "appealing": its ability to make room for viewers' imaginations.
Maggie's nudity in SherryBaby seemed very consistent with her character. I mean, I didn't view it as Maggie being nude, Sherry. And Sherry bothered me! I could understand in a sort of generic way the whys of her life, but on a personal level, I wanted to just get awway from her! Maggie,I think, maybe didn't want us to like her, necessarily. Maybe she wanted Sherry to confront us? I felt like I knew what some of her family members were going thru with her. She could be scarey, frustrating, exasperating, but in the end, I think her humanity was lost on a lot of people, me included, and Sherry was just this problem people were dealing with. That was the saddest part.
Great reflection, as usual, WDW - I look forward to your comments as to my favorite "columnists" and movie critics.
& interesting responses!
Terri Gross, in her NPR Fresh Air interfiew with Maggie, was surprised that Maggie could so identify and empathize with her character. Felt Terri was sorta
scoulding Maggie for this picture.
Odd.
I guess Im odd woman out on this one. Didnt think twice about Maggie in the nude - aside from wondering how about the Gyllanhaal metabolism - HOW do they stay so lean? and found her portrayal of a woman dealing with addiction, need,
instinct, interruption in maturing,
street life, etcetc. right on the mark.
Her moment of "epiphany" - also - was in my view true to life and the human condition -
& Beckela's question: how come we want Jake to take off his clothes and Maggie to keep hers on! :) :) :)
I fear Im not of the same mind of those of you who are happy to have Jake keep his clothes on. I would
walk a million miles or spend a million dollars to - no, no, Pia, dont go there.
There's a place somewhere between "hidden" and "exposed" that's right for all of us, yet different for all of us.
I call that poetic insight Kim.
But this is the human condition, for many: - including the rich and famous. Addiction. Sexual abuse
arising out of addiction. Immaturity. Babies having babies.
King Babies running countries.
Since we seem to be discussing plot without spoiler alerts, I thot the scene where Sherry realizes her unleashed anger has terrified her child to be "on the mark" and beautifully rendered.
Was interesting to me that Terri Gross seemed to be pushing Maggie to make a judgement call on her character, and she wouldnt do it.
Jake it seems to me is of the same
mind. Surely it reflects upon their upbringing and artistry.
I can't wait to see this - as soon as I get the opportunity I'm going to. I love that statement too - it's an artist's job to comfort the disturbed, disturb the comfortable. All too often, we get so focused on our own lives, we forget about others who are not so fortunate, and I'm no exception. I'm happy Maggie and Jake, both lucky to have a privileged upbringing, were also raised with an awareness of those not so fortunate by their parents. I just can't say enough about how wonderful their parents seem to be.
I like movies and books that tackle difficult issues head-on, articles in the media that present an issue head-on but fairly, putting it out there in all its rawness and ugliness for the world to see. Bringing things out in the open can snap people to attention, and at least get them thinking, if not inspire them to help, and give people a connection and understanding of situations they ordinarilly might not.
That said, good old entertainment has it's place, to relieve the stress of the problems of the real world, such as Batman, where the good guys always win. It's nice to hear that once in awhile, even if it may not always be true. :)
Good morning everyone:)
SherryBaby will probably remain on my films to see list a while longer. The excellent detailed discussion I've just read here-- I don't mind spoilers for this movie-- has convinced me, that I was right, to save this film for another day.
s
Good afternoon/morning everyone - so great to see you all and what a great conversation! I'm sorry I missed out but I'm back now (another day out Jaking - I'm spoiled) and I know its only 5pm but I'm going to crack open a Corona and be right back....
Goodnight from me LOL! Good to have you back. Were you at the movies again?
I must tell you that dark chocolate is back in the market I'll enjoy some while you enjoy your Corona
Good afternoon everyone! I wish I'd seen Sherrybaby cos it looks like you've all being having a very interesting discussion about it, but I've just skimmed over most of it until I have a chance to see it for myself(probably not until the dvd comes out:(.
As for the nudity topic, I have to say I'm in the "less is more" camp.I agree with Kim, I like to leave something to the imagination (and where Jake's concerned, I have a LOT of imagination!!) Take the Guardian pics for example: Jake has one of the fittest chests I've ever seen on a man and I certainly don't turn down the opportunity to look at it whenever I can;D But in those Guardian pics, where his shirt is unbuttoned and he's teasing us with just a glimpse of his chest hair, I find that even sexier cos it allows me to imagine slowly unbuttoning the shirt and...Ok, STOP!*opening window a bit further and switching fan up to the max*
Also agree with Dani about the tent scenes in BBM. I was one of those that was shocked by that scene- not in a "oh-dear-God two men having sex someone please think of the children!!!" kind of way, but because I was expecting more of a gentle build-up, something more along the lines of SNIT. It wasn't until I'd watched BBM a couple of times that I realised how FNIT actually made sense. It was supposed to be raw and instinctive, and wasting time on something like removing clothes just wouldn't have been right.
And speaking of clothes, back to the ironing for me now;(
... cheers everyone!
First off, thanks to you all for allowing me to speak honestly about SherryBaby and the fact that I do wish Maggie would move away from roles where nudity is a way for women to express themselves. As several of you say here - 'less is more'
Although I would like to point out here that as far as Jake and the exposure of his body goes - More is more ;D So long as it's not completely gratuitous, although I'm happy with a little bit of gratuitous, I could cope with that :D Double standards I know but there you go!
Maybe it's because Maggie in a film such as SherryBaby is personifying a woman hard done by and hard acting and I hate the abuse that the body suffers. This is a contrast to Jarhead and Jake's body in that - it was in the desert, it's hot and Jake's hot so that's more than enough reason for the shirt to come off ;D
Bobbyanna I agree that Maggie holds your attention throughout the film - I particularly enjoyed the beginning and the soundtrack - and she did bring Sherry to life. I just didn't like her. I could never see her having the willpower to survive or do better because, as you say, she was after shortcuts and men to save her. She picked the wrong ones or allowed them to pick her. But Maggie is a remarkable actress and made Sherry completely believable.
Hey Beckela - I didn't feel any of that hope and I was disappointed in her brother's complicitness in Sherry's tragedy (also he didn't look anyting like Maggie's brother....).
Incognita - I agree that we need to see Maggie in a role that's challenging and different but doesn't entail so much harsh "exposure" -- skinwise and otherwise. - definitely. The one doesn't have to include the other and I don't want Maggie typecast for her ability to expose herself.
SherryBaby undoubtedly challenges and makes us ask questions - as a film should - but if I have no empathy with any of the characters I tend to resign them to their lot.
I find it quite interesting that everyone it seems (myself included) would rather Maggie keep her clothes on, while so many want Jake to do the exact opposite! Hmmmm -- what's that about? - absolutely Beckela! Sometimes I can't help being shallow when it comes to Jake!
Hi Kim - I agree that films such as SherryBaby and actors such as Jake and Maggie serve a valuable purpose in making us confront people and situations that are uncomfortable and foreign to us - that are difficult. But I found that SherryBaby didn't do that for me. It just consolidated my preconceptions and left me feeling depressed. Secretary, by contrast, made me think much more and I left that film feeling encouraged.
I definitely agree with the code "disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed" - but there was no comfort in SherryBaby for me. We watched the film and recovered our spirits by talking for several hours about Jake - Jake does the trick, that's true!
Hi Dani - Like you I'll probably never see the film again, but I didn't think Sherry made any progress at all. At the end you have no idea where she's going and I don't think she knows either. I wasn't hopeful. I really do want Maggie to do roles that people can appreciate for her and not just because of her willingness to shock.
As you say, Ang showed sensitivity in the love scenes in BBM, even though they were extremely physical. Sometimes it is a good thing when directors use their skill to bring the viewer's imagination into play. Although I think every one of Jake's films should give in to my weaker side and let him at least take a shirt off... ;D
Hi positively pia - I have to wonder myself at how Maggie was able to get under Sherry's skin and how she was able to empathise. She became this woman so well I lost all sympathy for her. I particularly didn't like the scene where Sherry demands her child tell her she loves her. I have to say that Maggie does not look like an addict in this film - she has a glow about her figure and skin that oozes health and vigour.
I am completely with you when it comes to Jake and clothes (or lack of) in films :D
Hi Marina - I do like a film that makes me think and disturbs me but there is definitely room for a batman movie in the mix. That must be just as true for actors as it is for viewers.
Hi Sass - I'm sorry if the discussion has spoilt your interest in seeing SherryBaby. It's difficult to discuss without giving some of it away and some scenes are definitely open to individual interpretation and I can see that some of us got entirely different things from the film. But I won't be seeing it again.
Night Incognita - I have beer but I'm completely out of chocolate... I've been out enjoying the most beautiful hot weather in good company (with Ruby and Mr Ruby) with good food and drink.
I don't want to speak for Ruby and Anouska, who will hopefully post their own opinions here, but I think we all felt similarly about SherryBaby.
Hey Twisted Logic - hopefully there's nothing much here to give too much away...
I was just the same as you - the first time I saw BBM I was shocked by FNIT as I wasn't expecting it at all! Now I can understand it but at the time it was as much a shock for me as it was to them!
Jake has one of the fittest chests I've ever seen on a man and I certainly don't turn down the opportunity to look at it whenever I can;D But in those Guardian pics, where his shirt is unbuttoned and he's teasing us with just a glimpse of his chest hair, I find that even sexier cos it allows me to imagine slowly unbuttoning the shirt and... - oh my.... It's too hot for talk like that....!
That reminds me of those photos of Jake in LA (at Orso's) wearing the see through black jersey which showed so much of that chest, just out of reach :P
Flippin' heck, it's hot here!! Where I am physically located that is, I'm not talking about the Jake pics this time!
I've said here before that I have no problem with films making me feel uncomfortable - that can be a good thing. Sherrybaby was a bir of a downer that's for sure. One thing that struck me were the high expectations on Sherry in terms of rehabilitating herself, but a significant lack of meaningful support in doing so. Also, I really don't think her brother and sis-in-law did the right thing in the way they handled one aspect of her rebuilding her relationship with her daughter, I won't say what that was because it would be a bit of a spoiler.
None of this treatment of Sherry made it really easier to sympathise with her though. And I have not yet worked out why that is. She definitely engaged my attention - no question - just not my empathy.
I have to say there were good performances all round from the cast.
Cheers, all -
Oh please - I should behave as a mature woman, but I agree with you all, Jake does have one of the fittest chests, abs and legs of any actor I have ever seen. And that face! He just does something to me that I can't explain - he's extremely sexy. I agree with you WDW, I much prefer the suggestion of sexuality, it's more exciting, like I imagine it will be in Jake's upcoming Rendition love scene. And of course the love scene in Moonlight Mile which I thought was brilliant. :)
As far as nudity goes, it doesn't phase me at all in movies, male or female, because I feel a lot of the time it's symbolic, as I think it must be in SherryBaby, as I haven't seen the film yet. It's like "here I am, take me as I am, take me or leave me" which I admire.
TwistedLogic, I agree with you about the BBM scenes - FNIT was raw and passionate, and really not so unlike passionate love with any couple, and of course we all know the beauty of SNIT. That's why I was so dissappointed with Mark Wahlberg's comments, I don't buy that. He's a homeboy made good, so I have always liked him, but I hope he didn't mean those comments. I don't know if I buy the "OMG think of the children" argument either. The world would be a better place if children were not given these messages of shame and taught that all relationships are beautiful. I tried to be fair tho, because we all know that actors' careers can be tenuous, so I didn't want to accuse him of something that could hurt him or that he might not have meant.
You guys are great here! :)
Hi Ruby - it certainly is hot - and all this talk of Jake's abs is not helping...
Thanks for your summary of SherryBaby - you're far more tolerant of Sherry than I am. I agree that too much pressure was placed on her to prove herself whilst not providing support. The system had mistreated her so she abused it. Just didn't care for her though.
Hey Marina - Jake does have the powers to rob us of all mature thought - it's his fault not our's though, so remember that!
As far as the sex scene in Rendition - I just hope I stay conscious for it. The Moonlight Mile scene was beautiful but, from a physical point of view, Jake's body has changed so much since those days that the Rendition scene's power may be trebled at least :D
The 'think of the children' argument holds little sway with me. It's how these matters are presented that counts. I believe children should not be brought up in ignorance and fear - so long as everyone is conscious of their respective responsibilities.
I'm afraid I still have Jake's abs on my mind...
It's too hot for a tea break, so I'm having a Jake-break instead! Strangely though, it's making me feel even hotter!!
WDW and Marina, I totally agree with what you say about explaining things like homosexuality to children. I remember when TwistedLogic Jr was about four she asked me how come it was always a prince that the princess lived happily ever after with, why not another princess? I told her that sometimes two girls, or two boys, can fall in love and it's just the same as a boy and a girl falling in love. She didn't have any problem at all undersatnding that, even though she was so young.And the other day she was talking about Dr Who with a friend and her friend said that Captain Jack was gay in real life and Jr was like "so? What's the big deal?" Some people might say I'm too liberal, or I shouldn't discuss these things until she's older, but the way I see it, if I don't answer when she asks, and make it look shameful, she might never ask me and just decide to find out for herself, which imo could be a lot more harmful.
Oh, WDw hun, I wish I could send you some chocolate! I've got a brand new Dairy Milk multipack in the cupboard! No beer though, so I guess that evens it out;D
I wish you could send me some Dairy Milk too Twisted Logic! I guess I'll have to make do with cooling booze :D
That sounds like an excellent way of dealing with the whole issue. I would have thought the best time to answer such questions is when a child asks them, whatever their age. That way they set the pace. However, I have absolutely no experience of dealing with children (except to chase off a certain troublemaker who rings my doorbell, which means I set off in hot pursuit across the green...) so I bow to the knowledge of the mothers out there.
I don't recommend a Jakebreak as a way of cooling down, by the way. I have an image in my head of Jake and ice cream...
I remember when TwistedLogic Jr was about four she asked me how come it was always a prince that the princess lived happily ever after with, why not another princess? I told her that sometimes two girls, or two boys, can fall in love and it's just the same as a boy and a girl falling in love. She didn't have any problem at all undersatnding that, even though she was so young.And the other day she was talking about Dr Who with a friend and her friend said that Captain Jack was gay in real life and Jr was like "so? What's the big deal?"
That is probably one of the best things I've ever read, TwistedLogic. Leave it to children to see things as they are, without all the complications we adults place on things. I feel that as we grow up, we lose this, due to all of the social pressures, responsibilities of adulthood, and what-have-you, even for things such as reverence for the environment and other living things, which children so readily have as well. I don't have children of my own either, so I must defer to mothers as well, who have experience dealing with the realities of raising children, not just what they might do under ideal circumstances.
Now please don't put the image of Jake and icecream in my head!!! :)
I agree WDW, Jake was so much younger in Moonlight Mile, the Rendition scene will be quite different - be still my heart! There was just something about that scene tho - it had a "booty call" rawness, but also the sensitivity and emotion of something developing between them that I thought was beautiful portrayed, all without a lot of nudity or spelling everything out. That's ok too, but sometimes the suggestion of sex can be even more exciting.
Forgive my typo in my post above - I meant to say nudity in films doesn't "faze" me, not "phase". I need to proofread before dashing out comments! :)
Hi Marina - don't fight the image ;D That Moonlight Mile scene was so beautiful - I suppose because both characters were approaching their relationship from such painful places it made their coming together more raw, almost like a guilty pleasure. Ellen and Jake had real chemistry together in that film. My favourite scenes are the jukebox and the cupboard scenes. I must watch this again soon.
Roll on Rendition...
Jake turned down the role in Bertolucci's Dreamers,bcz there was explicit sexual content and nudity.Neither Jake nor Maggie shies away from nudity if it's necessary for the story.There was nothing really sexual or erotic about Sherry's nudity.It was sad & desperate and showed how "out of it" she was. I don't understand the issue here. I can appreciate people being uncomfortable with explicit sexual content or nudity, but I guess I not. If there's a point to it. The point of it in SherryBaby was not to titillate us, it was just showing the kind of person she was,the life she led using very little restraint or judgement,the choices she made, and how she came to be the way she was.I don't think Maggie or the director wanted us to feel sorry for Sherry, or to look down on her. I do think they wanted us to be uncomfortable. Sherry was broken and lost. As a result,she made people uncomfortable and she was her own worst enemy. Every element in Maggie's performance demonstrated that. And there was also a challenge. There are a lot of Sherrybabys out here. I think her character was saying, "Here I am! Deal with it." It was pretty powerful political stuff, a real feminist commentary on the criminal justice system, on parenting and relationships within a family, etc. without being preachy.
Hi Sass - I'm sorry if the discussion has spoilt your interest in seeing SherryBaby.
Oh no, not so at all. I'll go see it, but I have to prepare myself, because of the films difficult subject matter, which this discussion confirmed. This discussion, is no different for me, than a reading a Roger Ebert film review. You confirmed what I thought, and I'm grateful for that, and I'm happy I was able to come here and participate this morning:)
xoxo
sass
Hi Bobbyanna - interesting comment because I agree with everything you say - about Maggie's performance, and the role of nudity and sexuality in this film - but my opinion was that I just didn't like it. So it's not an issue of whether nudity is good or bad in a film, it's that in this particular film it made me feel especially uncomfortable for the very reasons that you state - it certainly wasn't about titillation.
The point of it in SherryBaby was not to titillate us, it was just showing the kind of person she was,the life she led using very little restraint or judgement,the choices she made, and how she came to be the way she was.I don't think Maggie or the director wanted us to feel sorry for Sherry, or to look down on her. I do think they wanted us to be uncomfortable. Sherry was broken and lost. As a result,she made people uncomfortable and she was her own worst enemy.
This is true - you sum up the film extremely well. Unfortunately, at the end of the film I didn't care one way or another about Sherry's fate and one reason for that was Maggie's superb acting at getting under Sherry's skin. There was much about this film which was politically and artistically admirable but it just wasn't for me.
Also, I don't have a problem with nudity or sex in a film when it serves the plot - my opinion was that I would like Maggie to be in films where it isn't expected of her.
Great comment, Bobbyanna!
Hi Sass - that's all right then :) It is definitely worth seeing for Maggie's wonderful performance.
FNIT didnt shock me since I knew the short story and had read a couple of reviews of the film. I was anxious that AP's story be done well, and I was amazed by the rendering of a difficult scene.
It was the SNIT that "shocked me" -
the point where Jack was removing his clothes in the tent was something I had never before seen on film - a seductive male, a macho male responding with awkward submission - and male tenderness. I knew at that point I would need to see the film again to fully conprehend what I was seeing.
Sherrybaby didnt shock me at all. Is it because I lived in NYC for many years, and have known and worked with addict mothers,victims of sexual abuse, etcetc.
I dont think we are asked to warm up to Sherry, to like her, but to
have some understanding. She's a baby, herself, little sense of boundaries: as Bobbyanna said, like a kid with ADD. Her behavior on the far side of "appropriate", and she has little sense of control. I liked Bobbyanna's take on her character. Sex as "coin of the realm". You bet.
Her asking a child "do you love me" is characteristic of such a personality. She would also be prone to violence, and is beginning to understand that, I think, and to understand that as much as she loves her child and wants to be "the mother" she is unable without help.
To me her acknowledgement that her brother is on her side, and that she is able to ask him for help is a big step towards recovery, and very moving. Actually, that she turned back from running off to Fla. was a sign of "hope"
It interested me that the guy she hooked up with from AA was, lets face it, UGLY. A sign of an honest film?
I didnt love Sherry, nor was I called, by the film, even, to like her, but I loved the film.
Pia - what a wonderful comment! Thank you for sharing that and, even though I don't share your regard for the film, I'm so pleased that it has such eloquent supporters as yourself and Bobbyanna. I suppose we're not all made to like all films.
Your comments about SNIT just made me sit up and think. What an evocative description - I've not thought about that before. This man removing his clothes very carefully in the tent - I always get the sense that he's carefully folding up his shirt and placing it to the side. And then lying there and waiting to see if Ennis is ready to make that leap. But he would have known that Ennis hadn't left for the sheep. I find that air of anticipation, worry and doubt so entrancing in this scene - when Ennis looks at the tent and makes the decision... one of my favourite moments of the film.
One thing I must say though is that I'm not shocked by the nudity in SherryBaby - I'm bored by it. That's my point. I'm sorry I didn't get that across well enough.
WDW, how about that the nudity in SB is not to shock, but that the film is maybe a form of "cinéma vérité", aka "film of truth" and that the genre itself has certain conventions and demands.
I dont think that such films expect wide audience interest.
Hi positively pia - I'm not an expert in film by any stroke of the imagination, just a fan, and it may be true that SherryBaby follows the 'conventions and demands' of the genre. However, I would like to see Maggie act outside this genre because I don't want to see her typecast.
Also, surely a director would like their film to be seen by as wide an audience as possible? I would argue that 13 cinemas in the UK isn't very satisfactory. It's a good thing that studios can look beyond box office success when they take out an option on a film but they still have to recoup their costs. But that's not really my argument here.
I have had a single malt by the way so my reasoning powers are somewhat stilted ;D
Just want to say g'night to you all; I've really enjoyed the discussion tonight. I'll be ready to come back to it in the morning ;D
Hey WDW and Marina! I really appreciate your comments, thank you both xx. I have to say though, I don't feel that I have any "knowledge" as such, being a mother, I just make it up as I go along! And I'm extremely fortunate to have been blessed with the most wonderful child,so I've had it easy so far:) To paraphrase what Jake's mum said, if she leaves (and is still speaking to me, presumably!) I'll know I've got it right.
I love all the chat about MM and BBM. You all make me want to watch both of them again now! Decisions decisions..
Oh btw, this "thinking" thing that us Jake fans do - thinking about Jake and ice cream is in my Top 10!!;D
"...the film is maybe a form of "cinéma vérité", aka "film of truth" and that the genre itself has certain conventions and demands.
I dont think that such films expect wide audience interest."
positively pia, thanks for this.
And WDW, I think we all share your desire to see Maggie's work and her talent reach a wider audience.
I think Maggie's own comments lead me to the conclusion she agrees with you, WDW!!!!I have a feeling she will try to satisfy her artistic needs and accomodate the more commercial demands of her profession by doing a little of both.I agree she needs more balance. Anything she does, I think she will elevate it by just being present.
What a great discussion "Sherrybaby" and Maggie's performance has prompted.
I saw the movie several months ago..... and my thoughts about it are pretty much the same as Bobbyanna's and Positively Pia's. I thought Maggie's depiction of Sherry was incredibly brave, honest, frightening and heartbreaking.
Just as I hope Jake is recognized one day with an Oscar, I want the same for Maggie. Like her brother, she has no competition among her peer group of actors.
Im not a hard core film buff - probably sounded pompous throwing round terms like cinema verite - but I am interested in film styles and so thrilled with commentaries on DVDs where we get to see the wizard behind the magic. And Ive always been interested in offbeat films.
I can't imagine a director or producer or cast thinking a film like Sherrybaby would be other than "art house" at first. Certainly not everybody's cup a tea. Our local art house manager thought BBMt would be an art house movie, and paid for it in advnace, only to find it hit the Megaplex and he lost money on this. He appeared before every filming to thank the audience for coming to the art house for BBMt.
Why thank you for the compliment, WDW, which I return in huge dollops * :)
SherryBaby wasn't indie enough for me. For me it was a straight movie in indie clothing, all narrative and nothing out of left field. What I thought Maggie did brilliantly was demonstrate how frustrating dealing with a damaged person is. Your sympathy is brought to the fore and then they do something so self-destructive or random you are thrown for a loop. (I had a Sherryish friend once :( ). If the amour-propre isn't there, you can't get a grip on the personality or offer any lasting help. Every day that person gets up and is compelled to reinvent herself in some way, so progress is made difficult, to put it mildly.
Now I'm depressed :)
I don't mind Maggie or Jake nuding up, to use a fave term from a tv show :). They are both very lovely to look at.
What I thought Maggie did brilliantly was demonstrate how frustrating dealing with a damaged person is. Your sympathy is brought to the fore and then they do something so self-destructive or random you are thrown for a loop.
I love your post Anouska - your words ring some bells for me too - at more than one level.
Wow! What a great discussion! It's such a pleasure to see such diverse opinions -- articulate and without any nastiness.
Pia said: To me her acknowledgement that her brother is on her side, and that she is able to ask him for help is a big step towards recovery, and very moving. Actually, that she turned back from running off to Fla. was a sign of "hope"
That is exactly what I got. I sometimes think I tend to see hope where there really isn't any, so it's nice to see that someone else saw it, too.
Why thank you for the compliment, WDW, which I return in huge dollops * :)
Consider it echoed to you both from me too!
It truly was a beautiful day ;)
(deleted post was me - due to bad grammar!)
((ruby)) ;-D *
Thank you incognita *
"I sometimes think I tend to see hope where there really isn't any"
That's how you keep pushing the frontiers of hope Beckela and turning despair into hope.
I agree with you that there is perhaps no other place where we can express such a diversity of opinion without nastiness adn actually listen to one another.
WDW I have linked to this incrediby stimulating discussion on the Sherrybaby thread on SMG
"What I thought Maggie did brilliantly was demonstrate how frustrating dealing with a damaged person is. Your sympathy is brought to the fore and then they do something so self-destructive or random you are thrown for a loop. (I had a Sherryish friend once :( ). If the amour-propre isn't there, you can't get a grip on the personality or offer any lasting help. Every day that person gets up and is compelled to reinvent herself in some way, so progress is made difficult, to put it mildly"
I TAWTC. Thanks anouska! You described how I felt almost exactly!
I had to rent this movie yesterday evening; my appetite for it was whetted after leaving here, so I went to my local BB as fast as I could.
Sherrybaby is one of the most honest, raw, gritty devastating performances I've ever seen. Maggie should have been nominated for an Oscar. The only other performance I can liken it to, is Ryan Gosling's in 'Half Nelson. She literally became Sherry; she inhabited her skin her brain and her body.
Her performance forced me to examine Sherry's misspent life, for clues, as to why she used her body as a commodity, to be bartered and sold, for whatever she needed or wanted.
Nudity became uncomfortable and upsetting; it's all ways difficult to watch another human being treat their body as if it stands apart from their consciousness...she had no concept of herself and used her physical self as needed whenever it would advance her cause.
Is it any wonder her brother and his wife sought to erase her from child's life?
I understood her self destructiveness after the scene I witness with her dad, though I suspected what had happened to her earlier n the movie; her story is familiar to many who have been damaged and betrayed, as she was in childhood. The blatant sexual fumbling of her grownup body by her dad was horrifying, and certainly was the key to her spiral downward. She will have to tackle that area with more than a 12-step group if she is to remain clean. I need her to become strong and rescue her daughter from any environment that involves him a soon as possible. I thank you all for this discussion.
sass
"I need her to become strong and rescue her daughter from any environment that involves him a soon as possible."
That was an eloquent post Sass ... and one that carries hope.
Hey, Sass! So glad you were inspired by conversation to view a film you thot earlier would not be on your A list! Because your comments were right on the mark!
& you're right about the sexual abuse/incest stuff: she's going to need more than 12 step program to get through this one.
there's alot of help and understanding around these issues, these days.
Hi friends! - what a fabulous discussion - I've really enjoyed reading it and wish I'd been around to join in - although I think I would not have been up to the task because you speak about SherryBaby with a great deal of insight. So in this case, it's best just to listen in.
I must say Sass I am absolutely delighted that the discussion inspired you to go and rent the film straight away and you seem to have taken so much from it. Even though I don't share your high regard for the film, your comment made my day!
It makes me really happy to come in from a very, very long day and see what a great discussion you've had - thank you everyone :D
I must say thanks to Ruby and Anouska for sharing their opinions here.
Thank you both for a wonderful weekend :D*
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